|
|
|
User loginNavigationAbout KnoxViewsUpcoming events
Other KnoxViews blogs
Who's onlineThere are currently 14 users and 283 guests online.
|
Why is Wuethrich lying?
Submitted by rikki on Thu, 2008/08/21 - 1:03pm.
The situation with the Solway green waste facility is degenerating into nonsense. Commissioner DeFreese is determined to prove there is coal ash at the facility, but this is not in dispute. NRR has admitted that it accepted ash from Y-12, and DeFreese posted photographs of mulch piles with ash spread over them. If you look at the satellite view of the mulch facility on Google Maps, you can see a dumptruck full of ash being unloaded onto a mulch pile. Coal ash contains high levels of arsenic. NRR has stopped accepting coal ash, and TDEC told them they could blend the ash into mulch, diluting it until arsenic levels drop below limits for Class B mulch, which should not be used where children or food crops could contact it. That is what they have done. Whatever ash is still on site has been mixed in with mulch and is likely not detectable through visual inspection any longer. The recent testing was pointless. DeFreese posted transcripts of recorded conversations and was upset that Tom Salter and the AMEC technician said they would dump samples on the ground. Without having heard the recordings, my guess is they were teasing her because she was trying to tell them how to do their job without fully understanding what was being done. The whole test was something of a joke. But now Bruce Wuethrich is claiming that samples must be refrigerated to be valid. This is absurd. Arsenic is an element, atomic number 33, and the only way to break it down is by launching it into the Sun. Inorganic samples do not need refrigeration. The Microbac tests that showed arsenic in the Popps' well water are likely accurate, and the ash NRR admitted to accepting is the likely source of that arsenic, especially since they pushed contaminated mulch off the main processing field and into a corner of the property above the Popps' home. To get from the mulch piles into wells, the arsenic must be transported by rain. The Microbac samples were collected during a rainy spell in July. The repeat tests were done as we entered the current dry spell. That's why the results disagree. A citizen has volunteered to pay for further tests; these will be pointless unless they are done during a rainy period. |
Search    Free ClassifiedsLocal websites:
State websites:
Regional websites:
National websites:
Government websites:
Media websites: |
Geez, the County should hire you (or somebody like you) to handle this. It's certainly out of DeFreese's area of expertise (which Lumpy pointed out, fairly humorously, in this morning's KNS article).
As for Bruce, I'm not sure he's "lying." He probably doesn't know how to do this testing properly either.
This facility has supplied the mulch at Rocky Hill Elementary school. My kids aren't rolling around in it, but I have safety concerns.
are pure non-sense. That mulch is a safety concern for everyone. If they are not covering up they should be glad to let a concerned citizen have and pay for independent tests run by someone that is not beholden to the county.
Bruce Wuethrich is not a liar. This is an irresponsible post and I'm a bit tired of folks slandering good people like Bruce, Tom Salter, and especially John Evans. These guys have served Knox County well and don't deserve this treatment.
If he is not a liar, he is the most incompetent person on the planet and has no business in doing anything but hauling mulch
Bruce Wuethrich is not a liar
You and Mike Cohen are the ones who used the word "liar." I specifically objected to Wuethrich's claim that samples must be refrigerated. Why didn't you address that? Would addressing the specifics make it harder for you to call me irresponsible and accuse me of slander?
Neither ash nor arsenic degrade because of temperature. It's obvious that the county and NRR are trying to discredit the tests that showed arsenic in well water. The responsible way to do that without slandering anyone is by having an independent, certified lab take samples during weather conditions that allow for transport of arsenic from the surface to the water table.
Remember lawyers and PR flacks know way more about science than even the scientists. Just ask them.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
You and Mike Cohen are the ones who used the word "liar."
Rikki, the title of your post is "Why is Wuethrich lying?"
I agree that the whole issue has been horribly mismanaged - by just about everybody as far as I can tell (which isn't far, since - unlike Victoria DeFreese - I don't have the science background to really understand all the ins and outs). Still, I think "lying" is a strong term.
And you are the first one on this post to use it.
Still, I think "lying" is a strong term.
"Liar" is an even stronger term. It refers to a person's character and not just to a particular statement. I was specific about what I was referring to, and it remains patently absurd to claim that samples from a mulch pile, which generate heat internally while they also sit baking in the summer sun, need to be refrigerated. If they were testing for E. coli, refrigeration might be part of a strict protocol, but for arsenic it just doesn't matter. Surely the head of county engineering understands this.
This facility has supplied the mulch at Rocky Hill Elementary school
There are different grades of mulch that come from the Solway facility. Most of what they produce should be fine for schools. Determining whether NRR's product is properly labeled and whether mulch in a given application is appropriate for the context is a separate matter that would require analysis of the mulch at the school. For that matter, as long as the mulch is not on the playground, the risk of exposure is minimal. Really, this is more of a problem for residents near the facility, particularly those who use well water.
Why is this so hard? Just give us independent testing and let the chips fall where they may (no pun intended).
Some one buried ash probably underneath as filler for the leaking ponds. Guilt and Greed are causing him to be less than honest.
As much as I hate to admit it DeFreese may be on the right track. The visual inspection simply looked for the presence of ash in a core of compacted dirt, and that was the county's definitive test. Not good enough and not even close. They are covering up, and if not, the inadequacy of the tests makes it appear so. They would have to be significant amounts of ash for it to be visible in the compacted core samples.
Victoria's samples look pretty much all the same. Because of this I don't find them very convincing. It might be background levels, although it does seem extremely high. But because she was completely unqualified to collect the samples and ship them for analysis, I don't really trust her numbers either. But no, they shouldn't need to be refrigerated, although a qualified technician would probably do so. The county should have chemically tested for As, no doubt about it. Looking for ash only is a red herrring.
I worry about something else here. CCA treated lumber has high levels of As, which is why it is no longer on the market for residential use. I wonder if the facility accepted lumber? I am sure they weren't *supposed* to but given how corrupt they appear to be (or have been), it might not be a huge surprise if they did.
Rikki is right about the well testing. It is VERY hard to detect contamination in wells and is nearly always corrrelated with storms flushing contaminants rapidly into (and later out of) the system. Particularly true given this area is extremely karsted -- think Cherokee Caverns and the Pellissippi road sinkhole. Good example would be the South Knox Coster shop sinkhole business. The dye trace they put into the sinkhole was never detected in anyone;s well because it was emplaced during the dry season. While the contaminants entered the system in the rainy season.
what difference does it make....do the independent sample and continue to do so as ash WAS on the bare ground which it should not have been and anything else on bare ground not allowed is just that not allowed and needs to be tested.
Let these people pay what they have agreed to and let us pay what we are obligated to pay (if they can prove it as much of this is a fortune claimed in travel to and from Louisiana)and get rid of them because they have no idea how to run a business...and at the same time, get rid of anytone else involved in this mess.
"Victoria's samples look pretty much all the same. Because of this I don't find them very convincing. It might be background levels, although it does seem extremely high. But because she was completely unqualified to collect the samples and ship them for analysis, I don't really trust her numbers either."
If I am not mistaken she drove the soil samples that same day to the Maryville, Tn. lab that did the test.There is more complete info on her test results on CC forum. We have a citizen that has offered to pay for quantified test, if they are not covering and making excuses why won't they accept the offer and let the chips fall? DeFreese tests are as scientific as the counties' which we are told we paid $5000. for visual test which is wasted money. Mrs. Defreese paid $150.00 from her district discretionary fund.
Is there anyone who doesn't believe this is a cover up? Wuethrich isn't the only one lying. The latest attempt to sweep this under the rug is to blame the dead guy. The new story is Evans made ALL the mistakes.
Is there anyone who doesn't believe this is a cover up?
A cover up of what? Ash and biosolids are both legitimate mulch/soil additives as long as they are used properly. I understand the need to test wells, but I'm not sure what the core samples are supposed to prove.
cover up of selling a controlled product without informing the public; pulling a product from the shelf without notifying thepublic; poisoning the well water or at least not notifying these people as requred; having an illegal land fill; using county funds to bury the product/disposed items using a company on site to do this without permit; Paying this company over 100k without bid or approval by commission; not collecting contractural funds; accepting grant money to do this....what cover up....how about lots of cover ups
I will say upfront that I represent NRR, and am proud to do so...and am glad to talk to anyone about it, although I will not engage in a blog-based debate with people who don't identify themselves. (Rikki and Rachel are most certainly not in that category) My e-mail is MCohen@AckermannPR.com and my office number is 584-0550. I have posted them on blogs before but never heard from those who do not say who they are.
People are trying to criticize the core drillings without remembering why they were done. Mr. Popp said NRR had buried tons of material. He even picked out the spots to be drilled. The drilling was done to see if ash was buried. It was not. NRR has welcomed and encourages every legitimate scientific examination. They will continue to vindicate us.
Even TDEC has said the test on the well cannot be given great credibility. They don't have any reliable information about the sample, when it was taken, how it was handled etc. But in response the Knox County Health Department's professionals went out and sampled 5 wells (one of them not actually used for more than a year) and has the samples tested by the State of Tennessee labratory. All 5 came back non-detect. Not lower...but non-detect. Rikki questions when the samples were taken..but I will trust the professional expertise of the Health Department, for which I have great respect.
Those who want to make much of the ground samples should research what experts say can be naturally occuring levels and what are levels of concern.
Environmentally it is too bad that some biosolids are now going to the landfill instead of being reused. And the problem was not the material, but the odor. The odor, even if it was for short periods of time, were not acceptable to the neighbors...which is both understandable and should be respected. That's why biosolids were stopped. Citizens have a valid right to be upset if government uses their tax money to do something that degrades their quality of life.
The Solway facility was the first such facility liscensed in the state. Working through the process for a couple of years was a learning experience for both NRR and the state. But lets remember that an EPA site inspection found it properly run and TDEC has said, in a letter to Commissioner DeFreese, that there have been no sanctions against the company. When any problem was found, or a decision changed (such as TDEC's decision with the ash) it was promptly and professionally addressed.
Finally, as someone who has known Bruce Wuethrich a long time I will say simply that the man is not a liar....and I doubt you will find people who know him or have worked with him who would suggest otherwise.
then the business was operated in such a fashion it should be disbanned. If Bruce is telling the truth both he and Sid Bryant are incompetant and have little ability to run this facility as they could not keep the contractural agreement nor could they have the sense to go before the commission to change it after millions were spent.
Exactly where are the missing labs and why has NRR not obtained all copies?
Why are you not taking up Jensens offer to pay for tests?
Why, if you are so much money out don't you bill the county and pay the county what NRR ows them and I think everyone would be satisfied...the hand shake agreement is not acceptable.
Why did you not notify the public even when the hot product was pulled? Is this your policy? Or do I need to even ask?
I believe past performance is the best indicator of future performance and NRR should pay what is due, including th double billed $27k and charge the county what is due and we will see where we fall.
And regarding obligation of a new pad....give me a break. If NRR had paid their obligation from day one, the latter attempt to expand would have been covered.
I am curious as to what kind of sampling AMEC actually performed. "Core drilling" is something you do in bedrock. There are continuous sampling techniques for soil/unconsolidated materials, but it is somewhat rare in the business. They most likely did split-barrel (or split-spoon)sampling which is a 1.5 or 2 foot long sample taken at specified intervals. You can try to take the samples end to end, but you may still miss a thin interval of material.
and I do know people who work for him...they would be fired if they said anything against him....how arrogant can you get?
Again, how about the illegal placement of Earth Works on Solway property, payment of over 100k without contract or permit to bury product and grade area; not informing public of product failing tests and disappearance of the lab results and refusal of NRR to replace them; pulling of product without informing public; not informing public of well potential contamination; placement of product on bare ground; non payment of contractural amount due county and inability to understand what a contract is and how it should be enforced?
Why won't your client just pay for the tests and prove once and for all what is going on at this facility? If there is nothing to hide, then why not have an impartial engineering firm do the full round of tests? Drill as many core samples as needed and settle this.
NRR has made a fortune off Knox County. They can easily afford to pay for these tests. They have paid Mr. Draper and you a small fortune to deny the charges. Why not prove what you allege?
Enough spin. Bring on the real tests.
Mr. Cohen,
Mr. Charles Jensen has offered to pay for testing to the amount of $10,000.
Since you are so well connected with the Ragsdale administration,can you enlighten us as to why Mr.Jensen's offer has not been taken up by the County or NRR.I'm sure Mr.Jensen would agree to an apples to aplles test.Rainy season vs.rainy season.What would Knox County have to lose?
What would Knox County have to lose?
Several million dollars. You can't poison people and get away with it. Knox County government doesn't care about the people near this site. No one wants to be the last one standing when the music stops. Wuethrich and Salter will get throw under the bus and Ragsdale will escape yet again.
Mr. Cohen
I do not wish to identify myself. I am merely a concerned citizen with some knowledge in the subject area. This does not mean I have to be or want to be personally identified. Since I am no party to the case, this is appropriate. Welcome to the blogosphere, it's nothing personal.
With all due respect, the Health department is not the same thing as a qualified geologist or hydrologist. I am certain they took the well samples correctly, but Rikki's and my points about how storm events influence contaminant mobility in the subsurface still stand. It is entirely possible that As gets into the groundwater ONLY when the soils become sufficiently saturated to contribute directly to the groundwater. In fact, this is the normal way things work in the subsurface. It is tremendously exacerbated by karsted limestone bedrock because of the large conduits that rapidly transmit stormwater into and/or through the aquifer. There are numerous published studies on this topic.
Your comments do not address that we are discussing apples and oranges. The county did not test for As, they looked for ash. It is not the same thing. Personally, I don't know what the background levels of As should be. DeFreese's numbers seem high for background to me, though. If the county wished to directly answer the Popp's question, they would have tested for As in the soils. They chose not to.
This also begs the question: Since the county was looking for fly ash, and they knew it was there, and they knew they were in the right locations, then why didn't they find it? Makes you go hmmm, doesn't it?
Also, no one has answered my question about whether CCA treated lumber might have found its way into the facility.
Finally, the emotional response from you (the last 3 paragraphs) is actually a direct result of NRR's mistakes. It has nothing to do with this current topic and the blame should not be placed on citizens who are concerned about their health.
Post new comment