Link...

Are they risking a loss because someone might disagree with one of the initiatives, the two most contraversial being the employment vs. disenfranchisement issue and allowing the mayor to appoint the fee offices and law director?

On the latter issue, to me at first glance, we're trading five fiefdoms for one BIG fiefdom, unless we implement some strict personnel policies with pay, raises, overtime, perks, etc. No more "perogative of the officeholder"

-------------------------------------
Steve Drevik
Candidate, County Commission
Fourth District, 4-B

KC's picture

I do not understand why consolidated power is better

except for the power brokers.

It seems illogical that in light of Knox County's population growth, we now need a smaller commission.

Say what you want to about nepotism, cronyism, etc, I think having more elected offices is always better than having more appointed officials.

I may not always agree with the voting public's decisions, but that doesn't mean I think that their power to vote should be removed.

That seems to be what this petition is calling for. It seems to be saying "We no longer trust the voting public to do what is in the best interests of the county."

lotta's picture

An assumption

You are assuming that greater # commissioners = better governance. That's the same logic County Commission took when they responded to lack of enforcement in the engineering dept. They added 4 inspectors. The problem lies in the political climate - the laws are clear but they have not been enforced. Adding inspectors doesn't solve the problem - they could solve the problem by actually enforcing the regs. It doesn't matter how many commissioners we add to the mix - if they don't have the decency to respond to the voters or the spirit of the law we are just adding seats on the bus to nowhere.

KC's picture

You are assuming that

You are assuming that greater # commissioners = better governance.

I didn't say that. You did. I said more elected offices gives the voters more power. If they choose not to use that power, then, yes, there's the opportunity for cliques to control things.

if they don't have the decency to respond to the voters

Is it their failure to respond to the voters, or their failure to respond to certain local power brokers that bothers you? And if they do fail to respond to the voters, how does that justify taking the voters' power away? Isn't that just punishing people your claiming you're trying to help?

lotta's picture

Ok, you are assuming that

Ok, you are assuming that greater # commissioners = more voter power.

Is it their failure to respond to the voters, or their failure to respond to certain local power brokers that bothers you?

I don't know what you are talking about but you sound a little paranoid.

NorthKnox's picture

I support all of the One

I support all of the One Question groups iniatives... The bottom line is that while the constitutional offices would no longer be directly elected by the people, the County Mayor and Commission would be held to account for their choices. I think we would get better candidates, because, for instance, Ragsdale would be forced to strike a balance between the two existing factions on Commission. The end result would be a an official who is likely more loyal to Ragsdale, but who would have to be appealing enough to please the Hutchison group, too. The alternative is a very good chance of getting a very polarizing official in office. Case in point... Scott Moore in the Clerk's seat. It doesn't get more polarizing than that, but the fact is he'll likely get the spot. Love him or hate him. Does anyone honestly think that a contentious figure like Moore could possibly get confirmation from a highly public and political body like Knox County Commission?

As it stands, with notoriously low voter turnout, whoever has the most political backing usually gets elected, something that only adds to the good 'ol boy politics that Knox County voters claim to rail agains't.

KC's picture

Ok, you are assuming that

Ok, you are assuming that greater # commissioners = more voter power.

And it does.

If you get rid of the elected offices, then you say, "but wait, the people will be represented through commission, which we plan to reduce to a small, manageable number," it's really a double whammy to the voters, and they know it.

If you don't trust the voters to make the right decisions, just come out and say it, because, basically, you already have.

Bird_dog's picture

the number of elected offices in Knox County

is bewildering. I always vote, but I can't name the candidates and positions off the top of my head - or even what districts I am in: ward, school, city, county. It is simply overwhelming and voter power is actually diluted. I favor a smaller commission and appointed fee offices.
fewer commissioners = MORE voter power.

lotta's picture

I disagree

and it's not a double whammy on the voters and you don't speak for me. I can do that all by myself. You need to go out to a bar and start a fight or something - your hostility boileth over.

KC's picture

it's not a double whammy on

it's not a double whammy on the voters

Please explain how it's not. Saying so doesn't make it so.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Shrinking the size of commission

Gary, I'm working with the Knox Charter Petition effort, and I don't see shrinking the size of commission as a negative at all. Quite the opposite!

I have some personal experience in trying to garner a majority commission vote for various issues I've supported in the past and let me assure you, I would much rather attempt to line up 6 favorable votes among 11 commissioners than to try to find 10 supportive votes among 19 commissioners.

And in lining up those 6 favorable votes, it sure would help to be able to say to 3 of them that I have a vote in their next election. For the present, I have a vote in the election of just 2 of them.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Appointing the fee offices

And Gary (Steve, too), concerning our proposal to appoint the fee offices, the Baker Center report on which our KCOQ recommendations relied compared our government structure to that of 160 other similarly-sized counties. These are among the report's findings:

1) Knox County elects 55 positions among its executive, legislative, judicial, and school board positions. CAN WE EVEN NAME THEM ALL, AND IF WE CAN'T, HOW CAN WE PRESUME TO PERSONALLY QUALIFY THESE PEOPLE FOR THEIR OFFICES?

2) Knox County elects substantially more officials to its executive and legislative branches (26 as compared to 10) among the 160 peer counties reviewed. SAME QUESTIONS AS ABOVE.

3) Knox County elects substantially more leaders in its executive branch (7 as compared to 1) among the 160 peer counties reviewed. WHY, WHEN ONLY ONE EXECUTIVE LEADER IS ELECTED IN THE CITY (MAYOR), THE STATE (GOVERNOR), AND THE NATION (PRESIDENT)?

Also, note that the petition relating to proposals for the executive branch proposes the creation of an Office of Inspector General, too, abolishing the current Department of Internal Audit.

This position would conduct routine audits of ALL branches of government. Are you aware that Internal Audit will NOT be conducting audits of the fee offices as part of its current investigations?

What's more, the selection of this person would originate in the Purchasing Department and the Ethics Committee would review candidates' qualifications. Both the executive and legislative branches would need to approve the accepted appointee, who would then serve a 6-year term extending BEYOND the 4-year terms officeholders in either of these branches would serve in their elected positions.

Many measures have been proposed to strengthen both the selection process and the resulting autonomy of the chief auditor appointed, then, and to broaden the scope of his/her authority, as well. The result will be much greater oversight of both the executive branch and the fee offices than currently exists.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Prohibiting county employees from Commission service

Steve, below is a recap of other local, state, and federal instruction prohibiting employees of various government entities from serving on the legislative bodies and/or elected boards of those same governments.

• City of Knoxville, with regard to service on the Knoxville City Council (City Charter, Article IV, Section 40): “No person shall be eligible to serve in the office of councilmember who holds any other elective public office or who is a City of Knoxville employee (and) any councilmember who shall cease to possess any of the qualifications herein enumerated shall forthwith forfeit the office.”
• Knox County, with regard to service on the Knox County School Board (County Charter, Article V, Section 5.01): “No member of the Commission or any other public official or employee of the Board of Education shall be eligible for appointment or election to the Board of Education.”
• State of Tennessee, with regard to service in the state Senate or House of Representatives (Tennessee Constitution, Article II, Section 26): “No judge of any court of law or equity, secretary of state, attorney general, register, clerk of any Court of Record, or person holding any office under the authority of the United States shall have a seat in the General Assembly; nor shall any person in this state hold more than one lucrative office at the same time...” (Note: Per legal staff with the State Election Commission, legal precedent exists for defining “lucrative office” to include state employees.)
• United States of America, with regard to service in the U. S. Senate or House of Representatives (United States Constitution, Article I, Section 6, Item 2): “No senator or representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time, and no person holding any office under the United States shall be a member of either house during his continuance of office.”

In contrast, a single statute exists in state law to condone the practice (TCA 5-5-102), which reads as follows:

• “Notwithstanding any provision of the law to the contrary, any county employee, otherwise qualified to serve as a member of the county legislative body, shall not be disqualified from such legislative office by reason of being a county employee.”

The law director believes, as do we, that the January 12, 2007 Tennessee Supreme Court opinion in Jordan vs. Knox County affords us the opportunity to call a referendum on setting qualifications for commission service, such that our practices in this matter conform to those at every other level of government--local, state, and federal.

jbr's picture

West Virginia's restrictions

West Virginia's restrictions on employment and running for office...

(link...)

Anonymous's picture

Tamara Shepherd : "1) Knox

Tamara Shepherd :

"1) Knox County elects 55 positions among its executive, legislative, judicial, and school board positions. CAN WE EVEN NAME THEM ALL, AND IF WE CAN'T, HOW CAN WE PRESUME TO PERSONALLY QUALIFY THESE PEOPLE FOR THEIR OFFICES?"

If you took out judges, wouldn't you cut this number in like 1/4 to 1/3? There's divorce court, circuit court, small claims court, criminal court and chancery court. How can you get rid of judges? Is that a good idea?

reform4's picture

I'm not opposed to the idea....

...don't get me wrong. But absent standard policies, we would end up with the "perogative of the officeholder" ruling the day, and the County Mayor could freely appoint 100s of cronies into lucrative positions. I don't buy the argument made earlier that "he'd be a fool to do it" or "he'd have to appoint people from both factions to make people happy." HAH!

Consider the federal government, where the President appoints lots of important positions (Sec of Defense, Sec of State, judges). The legislative branch has the opportunity to review and approve/vote down the appointees. The proposal before us lacks this extremely critical check and balance!

I spoke with one of the committee members today about some concerns, the prime one really being that the "message" and ability to answer some of the questions isn't as far along as it should be, to be making a big media splash. Please don't take any of these questions as criticism, but an opportunity to make these ideas workable. But many more moments like the inability to answer George Korda's question on budget votes, and the committee is in for rough waters. The commission is going to be a very hostile audience, and they will pose the same questions we're posing here. And they'll use it for justification to blow the committee off.

My suggestions on some of the questions to be posed:

What about small conflicts that could cause a commissioner to not vote on the whole budget? The annual budget would be a special case excluded under COI rules- it would be unreasonable to assume a commissioner would base a budget vote based on a conflict that might only represent 0.01% of the budget. The budgeting process is clearly done at too high a level for COIs to come into play.

Mayoral appointments would cement too much power in one office. The proposal would include a requirement to place the fee offices under standard policies for pay, promotion, hiring, firing, overtime, travel allowances, and perks (Commission would need the authority to review these policies and any changes as a check/balance). Commission would also have to approve each appointment and any replacements by majority vote.

At large seats would require well-funded campaigns and would not be "representatives of the people" / in hands of developers um... good luck with this one. I'm not sure how you address this concern. Given the fact that it gives the movement a metro government "air" (not that there's anything wrong with it...), I might suggest dropping this one.

Finally, the proposal needs to define "conflicts of interest" and not leave it up to the Law Director (as stated on Inside TN) to define it. It must include family members and it should include major contributors, IMHO.

-----------------------------------------
Fighting for Reform and Representation, Fourth District
Steve Drevik, Commission Seat 4-B
(link...)

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Pooped

Oh, gentlemen...I was mistaken to take up this conversation here, after having been at it on the N-S site since around 9 am this morn (less a mid-afternoon obligation for my son). There are over 100 comments there now, around a fourth of them likely my responses to questions.

Under the circumstances, may I ask that you take a look there? I think you'll find most if not all of these concerns answered there and I am quite the "wearybottom" this evening.

(Apologies, Randy, for redirecting the traffic...)

R. Neal's picture

(Apologies, Randy, for

(Apologies, Randy, for redirecting the traffic...)

WTF? Maybe you should encourage them to come over here? At any rate, I encourage people to get involved in the discussion and read what people are saying here, there, and anywhere else it's being discussed. Or go ahead and give the local media the monopoly over the dialog that they've always had. Whatever.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

My mistake

Very sorry, Randy. I was just so pooped answering repeated questions from people who clearly hadn't read a single word from the knoxcharterpetition.net website. Then I hopped over here and saw the same thing happening.

Again, it was my mistake to have entered into a conversation at Knoxviews when I was having difficulty responding to the volume of questions arising at the N-S site. I won't make it again.

R. Neal's picture

Again, it was my mistake to

Again, it was my mistake to have entered into a conversation at Knoxviews

It's never a mistake to enter into a conversation at KnoxViews!

KC's picture

Tamara- While I appreciate

Tamara-

While I appreciate your public activity in and for, I presume, your interests and others, the community, isn't this

I have some personal experience in trying to garner a majority commission vote for various issues I've supported in the past and let me assure you, I would much rather attempt to line up 6 favorable votes among 11 commissioners than to try to find 10 supportive votes among 19 commissioners.

simply a lobbyist's/activist's perspective? Granted, a U.S. Senate with one Senator from each state would be easier for Washington's lobbyists to deal with, but is it good for the voters?

Even if the lobbyists are working for issues that they feel like are in the best interests of the community as a whole, I fear that organizations that are most efficient are not necessarily most representative, and in a democratic republic, I believe representation of the people is of the utmost importance, rather than how efficiently the organization deals with legislative and policy matters.

reform4's picture

New KNS Thread/Discussion

New KNS thread here....

-----------------------------------------
Fighting for Reform and Representation, Fourth District
Steve Drevik, Commission Seat 4-B
(link...)

Joe Taylor's picture

Power to the people

Less power in fewer hands... sounds great to me... less to throw out of office when the Coup De Ta happens..

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

TN Progressive

TN Politics

Knox TN Today

Local TV News

News Sentinel

    State News

      Wire Reports

        Lost Medicaid Funding

        To date, the failure to expand Medicaid/TennCare has cost the State of Tennessee ? in lost federal funding. (Source)

        Search and Archives