Anyone who thinks Commissioners didn't have a pretty good idea who they were picking when they showed up for the meeting is too far out in left field. Appointments are supposed to be just until the next election to fill the void. No one could have imagined the situation Knox County was put in by the Supreme Court in having to appointment 8 Commissioners and 4 county-wide offices. We could have had forums and debates for months (for a term of about a year and a half).

The story is right. If there was some agreement on Tindell and Guthe's seat, we might not be where we are right now. In fact, I would argue that if there was an agreement on Guthe's seat or if Guthe had voted to break the repeated 9-9 ties, we might not be where we are now. Some controversy, yes. But, not like we've seen with lawsuits, etc.

I hope the courts clarify what constitutes an 'open meetings' violation. Two or more, a quorum, what? Again, you might not like how we got here, but getting this issue clarified, among other things, is a good thing. It would have likely never come up otherwise.

Chad, there is nothing "far out" about being disgusted with the commission appointments. You can hide behind the uncertainties with the Sunshine Law all you want, but the fact of the matter is they were literally disallowing public discussion of candidates. Whatever might have been going on behind the scenes, what was happening in the public forum, where all discussion of public business is supposed to happen, was silence.

And this notion that "no one could have imagined" the county winding up in this situation is crap too. The situation was 16 years in the making, with plenty of hints as to how it would end. Several commissioners saw the writing on the wall and declined to run for seats they had held for many terms. The long-term disregard for the public will and the chaos of the 2006 elections made it all the more important that the appointments be done responsibly, but they were not.

Nobody wants or expects commissioners to show up for meetings with their minds in a state of ignorant bliss. They expect them to show up prepared, informed and ready to conduct public business in a manner we can all be proud of. Instead, we got clowns and mimes performing a scripted folly.

Rikki nailed it so I didn't have to be the one that irritated CBT.

All I can do is say...What he said!

They expect them to show up prepared, informed and ready to conduct public business in a manner we can all be proud of.

Seems to me except for the Democrat in the 2nd District and Guthe in the 4th, this is exactly what happened.

What sort of forums, debates, public input would you have wanted? What if Commission felt the need to get it done quicker? In my opinion unless everyone got 'their' candidate appointed there was going to be complaining about a 'fix', not enough public input, etc. It was a no-win.

Jimmy Kyle Davis was appointed last year as Sessions Judge just a few weeks prior to a primary election when the voters would speak. Where was the outrage then?

How about when Paul Pinkston was appointed to fill his brother's seat? I heard barely a peep. No editorials. No lawsuits.

My point is this is how Commission (Republicans and Democrats) have done business for decades. But, it wasn't until a situation arose where so many appointments were required at one time that anyone, except a few politicos, paid a darn bit of attention.

Over the 16 years you complain of, tell me why no candidiate or officeholder (Democrat or Republican) ever filed a lawsuit to question term limits? You yourself could have run and had standing as a candidate to challenge the term limits. A few Commissioners finally did in Shelby County (who was the only other charter form county with term limits). That lawsuit resulted in the Tennessee Supreme Court upholding term limits for County Commissioners.

I have worked in county politics for close to 20 years. Until the Shelby County case, virtually no one talked about term limits. No one in Knox County tried to challenge it. Seems to me all these people who are griping now about abiding by the Attorney General's opinion that term limits were unconstitutional could have done something about it. But, now all they do is gripe because Commission was handed a no-win situation.

But really, it's what we do now that counts. Unless the court is of a mind to overturn the appointments made on Jan. 31 (which would only create more chaos), it's in the past. We need to get some good people to run in the next election and fix government the way it's supposed to be fixed...by electing good, honest, hard-working public servants.

the "everybody does it" defense

Rachel, that's not what I said. Go back and read my comments, in context.

What I said was that Commission has made appointments this same way for decades and barely a peep was heard, not even from the newspapers. But, when the term limits decision came down and a dozen or so had to be appointed at one time, it got people's attention. Commission made the appointments. You can gripe about that or if you don't like it figure out a way to fix it.

Seems to me that it's good people started paying attention. We haven't had enough of that in Knox Co. It appears changes are underway and we'll get some clarification on what Commissioners can and can't do.

I also said Commission was in a no-win position. I'll stick by that. However it was done, someone was going to be mad.

I don't want to forget the past. But, I can't change it. One thing I can do is to work to elect good people to office.

This is pretty simple stuff. It shouldn't make your head hurt.

Memory's a funny thing.

I seem to recall lots of outrage about dirty back room deals done cheap over the years and lots of reporting on it. I seem to recall people up in arms over the sheriff's high-handed decision to build a jail downtown. I seem to recall protests over ashe's choice of replacement for Danny Mayfield on city council. I seem to recall a recall movement. I seem to recall being personally disgusted and disillusioned when term limits were voted in and officeholders refused to get out.

I seem to recall lots of outrage over the years.

Memory's a funny thing, though.

It plays tricks on you.

Ragsdale put a lot more thought and effort into handling the term limits mess than Moore ever did. He assembled a charter commission to repair the defects identifed by Chancellor Weaver. He made good suggestions for the appointment process. His lax oversight over p-cards and expenses is a mark against him, but if you total up all the money wasted by the mayor's office, it's a fraction of the favors commission gives to developers in sewers and roads

Agreed; and now commission is doing all they can to bring Ragsdale down (hopefully resign) so King Scoobie can step in and appoint this mess all over again? Not defending the issues in the Mayor's office, but everyone knows that some of it is taken out of context for political maneuvering. If this battle is now about the Mayor v. Scoobie, I think everyone in knox county except 8 or 9 commissioners and their families know what is right.

Did the State Attorney General not state that the term limit bill as passed by the voters of Knox County was illegal and not to be enforced???

If so you should be mad at the attorney general for not following the wishes of the voters...

Are we not a country of law abiding individuals...?

When the top law enforcement official of our state ruled that terms limit are not legal… that pretty much is it...

As I recall it was a lawsuit filed in Shelby County which caused our state Supreme Court to rule that terms limits are legal...

Now if you have a problem with what happened after the Supreme Court ruled so be it...

But you can not hold it against the officials who continued to run and be re-elected based on the ruling of the State Attorney General who ruled term limits do not apply...

Memory's a funny thing.

My recollection is that then Knox County Law Direct Mike Moyers was asked to ok the term limits referendum language before the vote. Maybe he even helped write it? I can't quite remember.

Immediately afterward he asked the State AG's opinion of the wording and got the opinion he knew he'd get.

Plus, what rocketsquirrel and rikki said.

I think we can keep our outrage local. But you be mad at whoever you want, based on whatever facts you select.

EDIT: See Johnny Ringo's correction and clarifications below.

Ragsdale put a lot more thought and effort into handling the term limits mess than Moore ever did.

Can't argue with you there... And, he appeared to be much smoother in his lobbying efforts for appointments, just not effective...

Dispite some folks continuing efforts, I just can't see placing a white hat on anyone in this whole mess.

and now commission is doing all they can to bring Ragsdale down

The executive branch of county government seems to be doing a pretty good job of that on their own.

No one from Knox County challenged the State Attorney General... not even me... and I did not see any of you guys or girls run to court to file a lawsuit to challenge what the Attorney General ruled... said... stated or whatever...

So based on that fact I am blaming all of you for the mess...

If you were so smart and new the Attorney General's words carried no water why did you not do something about it be fore Shelby County had to come to our rescue…

Does a malignancy exist in the Knox County Mayor’s, Commissioner’s and Sheriff’s offices? What happens in government if the cancer spreads - bathroom rumors, angst ridden chat in some hallway, the suspicious elevator or stairway glance, the forced smile exiting the building and the disquieting silence of insecurity? Don't they feed into and off each other? Questions raise questions and gnaw on the bureaucrat’s brain cells: “Who” has “what on “whom?”
“Suspects” may be transferred from one department to another – a procedure that definitely has historical precedence in Knox County - dating back decades. I must say it was the same in New Orleans. It’s like an old time religion.
Do political actions soothe a conscience, a wallet and a need for power?
Meanwhile...

So the real problem then is the courts who failed to act in a timely fashion and by their own delay created this problem... a the time of the election it was still legal for the commissioners to seek re-election as there had not been the ruling by the State Supreme Court at that time... correct... so once again... if the courts would work 7.5 hours a day and 5 days a week maybe they could have ruled earlier and saved us from this mess...

With regards to your points about terms limits... our current population is to lazy to exercise they duty and right to throw the bums out by actually going to the polls to vote... so we have to pass laws which state politicians should be part time jobs not careers… a.k.a. term limits…

As for the current state of county commission and the executive branch… I kind of like them arguing with each other… at least they are not thinking of new ways to spend our tax payer dollars expect on medical procedures and lobsters

Everyone wants to blame Scott Moore. But, read the stories in the KNS. Pinkston and Clark had their own method of picking. Griess wanted to pick and protect his legacy. Jordan knew who she wanted. Same for John Schmid. Mills tapped his friend Jack Huddleston. B. Tindell wouldn't play with Harmon. Guthe refused to vote and apparently got mad when his choice (which he didn't reveal until the day of the meeting) wasn't ratified.

Scott Moore had nothing to do with any of these. Moore is the Chairman, but was dealing with a lot of different agendas (see above). Lots of people may think he didn't handle it right. But, I will also point back to my comments about this whole mess being a no-win for Commission, no matter how it was done.

The problem is two fold... one a court system in our country which is highly ineffective... and number two that is the way business has been done Knox County...

Not saying it is right... but get off of your high horse...

It was the perfect storm the result of an lazy court system which waited to rule until after the election and provided no direction on how to fix the problem they created and then a county commission which has always worked the backroom/back hall... take a short recess/bathroom break or whatever to line up the votes...

The problem I see is that you guys just now started paying attention and had your nose bloody and did not like it... Commission just used the current rules and laws against you and won...

Now is the time to quit crying over spilled milk... nothing is going to change until educated well informed folks go the polls and vote each and every time there is an election which will make the elected pay attention and not pull these type of stunts in the future...

But I am willing to bet the voters do not turn out at the next election any better than the last few... I hope I am wrong... but for whatever reason folks just don’t vote anymore...

One last thing… when I was growing up and a young kid... many many moons ago... my Dad always took me with him on election day... it was really cool... he always explained what he was voting for and why it was important to vote... when was the last time you can remember seeing a parent with a child at the polls... if you did it was probably me as I always take my children and explain the who and why we are voting...

I can only hope I do as good of a job explaining the who and why to my children as my Dad did to me...

Weaver worked hard and fast. The Supreme Court didn't. In fact, the Supreme's were asked to take the Shelby Co. case without a hearing in the mid-level Court Of Appeals. The Supreme Court declined. That caused more delay in the Shelby Co. case, which in turn delayed the Knox Co. case. Absent federal judge Jimmy Jarvis certifying the Knox Co. issue to the Supreme Court (which he had the right to do since he had a Knox Co. case which could be impacted), the Supreme Court in the Knox Co. case could have taken even longer. When the Knox Co. case came out, the election process was already too far along to make any change.

In defense of the Supreme Court, I'm sure the judges knew it was an important case and wanted to get it right and not just fast. In some ways with the Shelby Co. case, Moncier lawsuits, the lawsuit by Knox Co. Commissioners, the statutory appointment process Commission had to follow, it was a perfect storm. Or maybe it was the storm which followed. Either way, it was never going to make everyone happy.

Personally, I thought the timing was curious. But so is everything else about Knox Co. politics.

Scoobie was the one that forced the appointment date up the calendar to avoid any further discussion of public input. That was key to the shenanigans that transpired. He set the ball rolling toward appointments. He himself had is friend Lumpy do all the "back room deals" so his hand remained clean, so to speak. He set the rules, that appointees credentials would not be presented and that discussion was not done in the open, but during recesses (or pee breaks as they would have us believe).

IMO, Scoobie set the stage, directed the play, and let his actors ad lib as necessary.

Rachel, you're giving Tim Hutchison way too much credit (or placing too much blame, I'm not sure which).

My point is that is the way things get done in Knox County/Knoxville going all the way back to Cas Walker...

at least no one "got slugged" like Cas did to someone back in his day...

If it did comes to blows my $$$$ is on Shurf Tim's boys cause they got guns...

A smart person told me about dozen years ago, always end up on the side of the folks wearing kevlar and carrying guns (and this was 'political' advice).