Tue
Feb 20 2007
06:32 pm

From KNS Editor Jack McElroy's blog:

As I've mentioned here before, the News Sentinel felt obligated to sue because of the impunity with which the commissioners ignored the Sunshine Law when they picked 12 replacements for term-limited office-holders. This law is one that has no real provision for enforcement other than citizens going to court. Based on the way the Commission behaved on Jan. 31, we figured we either had to sue or acknowledge that, in Knox County, the Open Meetings Act was meaningless.

Read the whole thing, including threats by Moore to go after KNS phone records and reporter's notes when Knox County Law Director John Owings suggested that County Commissioner's phone records and e-mails could come out in discovery.

Say what you will about the KNS, and I've said plenty and had plenty of differences of opinion on their editorial policy (from a political and unfortunately personal standpoint), but the KNS and McElroy are fighting the good fight here, for whatever it's worth.

Maybe it's all for show to sell papers. Or maybe it's symbolic and won't amount to anything in the end. But I'm sensing it's for real, at least on some level. Some stuff is so outrageous that it transcends KNOXGOB business as usual, and there's no more ignoring it or going along because even the most casually informed citizen can tell something is wrong.

OK, then.

StaceyDiamond's picture

commission

John Schmid hit the nail on the head in this week's Shopper article speaking about Scott Moore's lack of intellectual capacity. I never thought I'd say it but Moore makes the Sentinel and Ragsdale look very good. Stacey

Pickens's picture

What could the paper be

What could the paper be hiding that Moore could possibly want to see? I bet there's nothing, probably just a "if you're going to do it, we're going to do it too" tact.

I bet Moore and others have much more to lose than the paper.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Pickens: "I bet Moore and

Pickens: "I bet Moore and others have much more to lose than the paper."

I sure think so. The comment I left at McElroy's site was that I expected Commission would regret not settling the suit early on.

The litigation process will be one that wears both parties down, though. I hope folks don't neglect to urge McElroy on, after this initial uproar subsides.

rocketsquirrel's picture

smug disclosures turn openness into a joke

Moore's smug disclosures of family interests yesterday at the Commission meeting, where he basically turned it into a joke, are indicative of how much contempt these people have for the public.

Hoseman19's picture

Is the settlement legal?

Can the commission legally re-do the appointments? Wouldn't the 12 appointees have to step down, the commission re-seat those dumped by the State Supreme Court, and then let the re-seated 8 vote for their replacements again? It all doesn't seem very legal.

Number9's picture

Good question

Can the commission legally re-do the appointments? Wouldn't the 12 appointees have to step down, the commission re-seat those dumped by the State Supreme Court, and then let the re-seated 8 vote for their replacements again? It all doesn't seem very legal.

The County Law Director spoke to this question in detail yesterday. I will have it on YouTube later today.

The first four parts on the Special Election are ready on YouTube Channel 9. You can find them here.

Part I

Part II

Part III

Part IV

The Special Election doesn't look so good after Bud Gilbert describes the mechanics of it. Of concern to all voters should be the "law of unintended consequences".

Tamara Shepherd's picture

This question was posed by a

This question was posed by a couple of folks on a couple of threads yesterday, Hoseman. My thought (subject to review by those who know more than I) was that the Bailey decision in Shelby County offered a precedent. There, the Supreme Court held that the term-limited Commissioners, who continued to serve beyond the time local law allowed, *could* nevertheless vote to name their replacements because they served in a "de facto" capacity. Knox County's term-limited eight named their replacements, too, of course.

If we apply that same logic again now, I suggested that the new appointees possibly *could* vote on a settlement of the N-S suit (although they opted out of that course yesterday).

However, since the Sunshine Law effectively voids all public business conducted outside the public's scrutiny, I would think that new appointees *could not* participate in any "do-over" of the appointment process, with or without a court order. In that scenario, I would assume that the "voided" meeting would serve to invalidate the existence of the new appointees on Commission, and that the term-limited folks would then need to return to "do-over" the appointment process in a more public manner.

Of course, I am a housewife with absolutely no qualification to opine :-)

Number9's picture

A quick summary

I would assume that the "voided" meeting would serve to invalidate the existence of the new appointees on Commission, and that the term-limited folks would then need to return to "do-over" the appointment process in a more public manner.

Yesterday the County Law Director stated that the appointed Commissioners are de facto. They may vote and their vote will be counted. They are not in limbo.

Should the News Sentinel prevail in court the appointed Commissioners would be removed and the original Commissioners would be sworn in again. Then the appointment process of January 31st would be redone. Will anyone feel better?

Where were the lawsuits from the News Sentinel last year after the Bailey ruling? When they would have been welcomed? There is a time and a place for everything and I agree with Chad, this is neither the time or the place. The County budget is waiting like a hungry bear that has just woken from its winter slumber.

We can agree to disagree, I understand passions are very hot over this. At some point you have to move on.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Are you sure?

Number 9: "Yesterday the County Law Director stated that the appointed Commissioners are de facto. They may vote and their vote will be counted. They are not in limbo."

Are you sure about this, Nine? I understood that appointees *could* vote on the question of settling the N-S suit, but *could not* vote in any repeat appointment process (why would they be able to vote to re-appoint themselves?).

WBIR's Kay Watson indicated last night that the term-limited eight would need to return to repeat the appointment process, too.

(Haven't looked at your links yet. I'll do so now.)

Number9's picture

Tamara,

Are you sure about this, Nine? I understood that appointees *could* vote on the question of settling the N-S suit, but *could not* vote in any repeat appointment process (why would they be able to vote to re-appoint themselves?).

They cannot vote to re-appoint themselves. They are de-facto in all respects unless the News Sentinel wins its lawsuit. Then they are removed. They can vote on the News Sentinel lawsuit. They will have no part in a re-appoint process.

Confused? Not easy to understand is it?

It will be later today before the Law Directors YouTube is up. John Owings explains a complex situation very well.

Simply Ridiculous's picture

I think this issue

is close to Jack's heart, since he is on the board of Tennessee Coalition for Open Government. Whatever the reasons, this is one chance for our voices to be heard.

Moore, as anyone can see from the last few weeks events, is very good at making threats to try and divert attention (accusing Ragsdale of violating the Sunshine Law during the ethics committee appointments, bringing up the Harber incident - timing, now threatenting with reporters phone/email records, etc.).

Yes, he has much more to lose than Jack or the N/S; he has no formal education, no formal job experience, and clearly no intelligence. If he had to survive in the private sector like the majority of us he would never make it. What he stands to lose is another elected position, this time the one he wants will cost taxpayers a lot more than his commission salary.

Go Jack! Even if the penalty is small, you are allowing our voices to be heard!

(P.S. Will someone tell Scott Moore that this is what is considered to be "public outcry"?)

Hoseman19's picture

Why do it again?

If deals were made last time, what makes you think deals won't be made this time? (If they did a re-appointment process.) What happens if the KNS lawsuit gets drug out until the next election? Probably nothing, except taxpayer money gets wasted on more lawyer fees. I think we have paid enough of those in the last few years, with no real resolution. From what I have seen, it doesn't take much to delay anything in court, and 18 months isn't very long.
How bad would it be to let this commission try to work, and then go vote in the election?

Rachel's picture

How bad would it be to let

How bad would it be to let this commission try to work, and then go vote in the election?

How bad is it going to be to let George Bush fill out his term?

Seriously, the way these guys were appointed leave people with zero faith in county govt. That should be a big deal, although it doesn't seem to faze people like Scott Moore.

A "do-over" would almost have to be done with public input, etc. Even Scoobie wouldn't dare use the same process he used last time (or maybe that's wishful thinking).

I think at least two of the new Commissioners would very likely NOT be re-appointed.

rocketsquirrel's picture

smugfactor

based on Scoobie's smugness at yesterday's meeting, I think he sends every indication that he would use exactly the same process...it would just be more carefully choreographed with dance steps worked out in advance. Not sure the outcome would be any different. Even with a do-over, I think the public's confidence in this government is at an all time low.

Rachel's picture

You're probably right. But

You're probably right. But I repeat, at least 2 of the new Commissioners would not be appointed.

R. Neal's picture

Jordan and Cate? Or Jordan

Jordan and Cate? Or Jordan and Trammel?

rikki's picture

Cate

I didn't put two and two together until I was talking to a friend yesterday, but I interviewed Richard Cate, director of the homebuilder's association, for a stormwater news piece I did for Metro Pulse. He struck me as knowledgeable and enthusiastic about "green" building approaches. Perhaps he was just talking a good game, but a homebuilder with a sense of the industry's future could be a good thing for county commission.

One of Hooties Blowfish's picture

Cate

I bet he's talking a good game, hoping nothing catches up to him.

He denied the sexual relationship that resulted in a 250K verdict by a jury.

He said his fence company went under because of 9/11. But wouldn't you think more folks would be buying fences under 9/11?

Scratch below the surface, you'll find a creep.

Rachel's picture

Ethics Committe

He struck me as knowledgeable and enthusiastic about "green" building approaches. Perhaps he was just talking a good game

Based on what I've heard about Richard Cate, I'd believe he's in to environmental friendly building when I see it.

One thing I missed yesterday was that Commission rejected theh Mayor's nominees for the Ethics Committee. Tramel suggested they name their own nominees from the 9 districts.

IIRC, state law requires the Mayor to appoint, and lists specific criteria for who is on the committee (three county commissioners, etc.). Or was that just what Commission agreed to back in January?

Somebody help me out here.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Ethics Committee

You're right, gemini. The policy says (and the state law requires):

5 members (not a min or max, just plain 5), of which
3 members shall be Commissioners
1 member shall be a Constitutional Officer
1 member shall be "a member of a board, committee, commission, authority, corporation, or other instrumentality governed by this policy"

...except that, either of these last two members may come from Commission, if no others volunteer to serve.

Number9's picture

Time out rikki,

I didn't put two and two together until I was talking to a friend yesterday, but I interviewed Richard Cate, director of the homebuilder's association, for a stormwater news piece I did for Metro Pulse.

Nice article on stormwater rikki. This is one of the most dangerous issues to the pocketbook of everyone in Knox County.

Enough fooling around. Get serious about this Knox County Government. Having Victor Jernigan as your go-to-guy looks very bad. That is not the right point man. Call farmer McMillan. Call UT. You guys keep screwing around with the Fed's and the taxpayers will take it in the shorts.

This is Mayor Ragsdale's Achilles heel. That and next Monday's County Commission meeting.

Okay, time in, a post awaits you at Say Uncle rikki.

Bbeanster's picture

rikki, rikki,

rikki, rikki, Rikki--

Richard Cate is not a homebuilder. He's a lobbyist. And he was the homebuilders' lobbyist who (along with Dave Hill)shepherded through the backroom rewrite of the 2005 Stormwater Ordinance after it had already been approved by commission. He was also the campaign manager for city council candidate Kim Litton, who campaigned against Rob Frost on the grounds that he'd been too hard on developers who didn't comply with drainage standards.
Kim, btw, believed that stormwater, drainage, pollution problems can all be solved by simply cleaning out the creekbeds.

jbr's picture

Frost

I have seen some other good things about Rob Frost. Think he might run for mayor?

Johnny Ringo's picture

He'll have to scramble over

He'll have to scramble over Victor to do it.

shortstuff's picture

Rob Frost for Mayor

I would love to see Rob Frost run for Mayor. Rob is well informed and an extremely ethical individual. I also like the fact that Rob represents the people and not the machine. I can't believe we have approximately 500,000 residents in Knox County and we're allowing a bunch of thugs (less than 20)to run over us. Is it time for a march on Main Street.

rocketsquirrel's picture

one more thing

where I said the "public's confidence in this government is at an all time low..." I may be stating the obvious here, but it is this lack of confidence that leads to low voter turnout.

While there are those incumbents who smugly say "well the voters keep voting us in" the public is smart enough to know that if the fix is already in, why should we bother voting? I would submit that it is this kind of Calvinball that causes disenfranchisement, not voter apathy--eg. more people care about elections than turnout to vote. They just know that the fix is usually in.

bill young's picture

don't bet against jordan

don't bet against jordan

LadyVols's picture

cate ?

Scratch below the surface, you'll find a creep."

Well his company built our fence and he came over to our home personally to both see how it was going and to collect the check.

A very nice man who talked like he knew everyone in North Knoxville and at the City County Building. He did share an adult beverage with us but it was after five and he said he was "off the job" at the time.

He sounds like he knows the workings of the board and unlike Jordon (who I will never get over the fact that he was a member of the Florida Boys) I think Mr. Cate will be very good at the job.

Rachel's picture

Richard Cate

who talked like he knew everyone in North Knoxville and at the City County Building.

He probably does. Not that that is necessarily a good thing.

Bbeanster's picture

Cate

Came over and collected the money personally?
Had a drink with you?
Knew all the right people?
Yep, that's Richard in a nutshell.
You know, of course, that the fence company went bankrupt, as did the company that had to pay the judgment against him.
You might want to think about the picture you just painted.

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