Mon
Feb 2 2009
09:27 am
The Sanctity of Marriage
By: MDB

So, if you listen to the conservatives, the greatest threat in the world to the sanctity of marriage is that two people of the same sex might actually solemnify their love for each other.

Apparently, though, 85,000 quickie weddings with no waiting period, including Valentine's Day "marry-thons" (groan), is just fine and dandy.

Feh.

Topics:
T.K.Owens's picture

The Sanctity

Submitted by T.K.Owens (not verified) on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 11:18am.

Ehp. 5:30-33
Marriage is an institution set up by God,through the Clergy.

The United States should not engage in changing the definition of a holy institution; at the State or any governmental level.

"One man one Woman!" that's marriage.

T.K.'s picture

'NOR Should' The Government

Submitted by T.K. (not verified) on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:11pm.

'NOR Should'
The Government has every right to acknowledge the truth.
-Owens

MDB's picture

Yawn. "One man one woman",

Submitted by MDB on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 11:21am.

Yawn.

"One man one woman", huh? I invite you to ask Solomon about that one.

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T.K.'s picture

"Yawn" Solomon was punished

Submitted by T.K. (not verified) on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:01pm.

"Yawn"
Solomon was punished for following his many wives into idol worship.

MDB's picture

You're making my points for

Submitted by MDB on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:06pm.

You're making my points for me.

Solomon was punished for following his many wives into idol worship.

Nothing about being punished for polygamy itself, just for doing his wives told him to do.

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T.K.'s picture

More than one got this King

Submitted by T.K. (not verified) on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:25pm.

More than one got this King in trouble...
That's the point!

I Kings 11:1&2
"King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh's daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. They were from nations about which the LORD had told the Israelites, "You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods." Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love.

The punishment
I Kings 11:31
"Then he said to Jeroboam, "Take ten pieces for yourself, for this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'See, I am going to tear the kingdom out of Solomon's hand and give you ten tribes."

Only two tribes remained for King David's sake.
with Love
-Owens

cooperhawk's picture

What does the Old Testament

Submitted by cooperhawk on Tue, 2009/02/03 - 1:50pm.

What does the Old Testament have to say about credit default swaps

see Proverbs 11:15

and M-theory physics?

see Job 38:4-6

MDB's picture

So, if Solomon had married

Submitted by MDB on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:38pm.

So, if Solomon had married 10,000 good Jewish girls, that would have been cool with God?

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WGPittman's picture

A great overview...

Submitted by WGPittman (not verified) on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 1:08pm.

(link...)

R. Neal's picture

Marriage is an institution

Submitted by R. Neal on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 11:26am.

Marriage is an institution set up by God,through the Clergy.

OK fine, but that's why the government has no business getting involved in it.

Civil unions should be the officially recognized government version, and folks can go get "married" in whatever ceremony or ritual allowed by their particular church or religion if they want to.

MDB's picture

The government should follow the church's definition of marriage

Submitted by MDB on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 11:33am.

folks can go get "married" in whatever ceremony or ritual allowed by their particular church or religion if they want to.

Good point. My church, after all, will quite happily perform same sex weddings -- why is the government allowed to prevent legal recognition of those weddings?

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T.K.'s picture

The government doesn't have

Submitted by T.K. (not verified) on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 11:57am.

The government doesn't have to acknowledge a union that is different from the scripture.

Eph. 5:31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

It has to do with the birds and the bees.

PS: The bible also says fornication is a sin; but we don't arrest people who have pre-marital affairs. That is the separation in the U.S.A. (freedom of choice, Not freedom to re-word the bible to make sinners feel better.)

I Cor. 6:9-10 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

* bible verses are NIV translation

Elrod's picture

Greedy too?

Submitted by Elrod on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:14pm.

How does capitalism function without greed? Is Jesus a Socialist?

Nobody's picture

Jesus fed a lot of

Submitted by Nobody (not verified) on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 12:05pm.

Jesus fed a lot of people!

Why do think he was hated by the Scribes?
(They wanted to be royal. Christ, humbly came for more equality.)

MDB's picture

Should the government crack down on blended fabrics?

Submitted by MDB on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:36pm.

The government doesn't have to acknowledge a union that is different from the scripture.

okay, fine. Deuteronomy 22:11 also says not to wear blended fabrics.

Lets have the government get involved in that, too, just like you support with marriage. If you want to open "T.K.'s Tasteful Klothing", you won't be able to get a business license if you're going to sell clothes with blended fabrics. You can wear them all you want in your home (TK's Titanic Kastle, perhaps), put them on the wife and kids, give them to the neighbors. You just can't sell them, because the government can't sanction it with a business license.

See how silly it is to get the government in the businss of endorsing Biblical injunctions?

Voting is like driving. If you want to go backwards, select R. If you want to go forward, select D.

reform4's picture

Don't forget the shellfish

Submitted by reform4 on Tue, 2009/02/03 - 12:03am.

which, I seem to recall, are referred to in the same language... "an abomination."

Therefore, we need to shut down the Shrimp Dock, Fresh Market, Kroger's, Chesapeke's, etc, posthaste. You can catch it yourself and eat it, I suppose, but we can't provide restaurant / food vendor permits.

Oh, and we have to definitely fire all the women teaching in our schools (I Timothy 2:12), which is going to kind of screw up the schools for a few years.

Got to revoke all the barber shop permits and shut them down, too. (Leviticus 19:27)

No more divorce proceedings in the courts- but if your spouse is unfaithful, it's time for a good stoning!

I'll say it again- we don't live in a theocracy, and all sane Americans don't want to turn America into a theocracy.

MDB's picture

Ah, but remember...

Submitted by MDB on Tue, 2009/02/03 - 7:53am.

...the standard conservative response (which I'm surprised TK hasn't posted yet...): Jesus lifted those restrictions.

From listening to them, you'd think Jesus lifted every single Old Testament injunction except the one about homosexuality.

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MDB's picture

For that matter

Submitted by MDB on Tue, 2009/02/03 - 9:03am.


1 Timothy 2:9 (KJV) says:

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

So, basically every high-end women's jewelry and clothing store has to be shut down.

Y'know, if I was feeling really mischievous some Sunday, I'd go to one of the conservative churches in a wealthy neighborhood (Kingston Pike, Calvary Baptist), and ask the ladies there about their "costly array". And that's from the New Testament; they can't use the "but Jesus lifted that rule!" dodge.

I imagine asking to see clothing receipts...
"Wal-Mart? Check.
Target? Check.
Dillard's? hhhhhmmm... that was on clearance, so we'll let it slide. Be careful, though.
Dulce and Gabbana???? Begone, ye sinner! I cast thee out!"

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Owens's picture

'Jesus lifted that rule!'

Submitted by Owens (not verified) on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 1:08pm.

I've had conversations with people who say we can basically 'throw out' Old Testament.

They are not totally correct.

We have no need for sacrifice under the love of God's salvation plan.
The plan is, the shedding of Christ's blood.

To sacrifice an other for the remission of sin would reduce the deity of Christ.
(I learned that in Mrs. Reed's Sunday school class: Grace Temple, Johnson City!)

Background verse
Hebrews 10:28-29

MDB's picture

That's my point.

Submitted by MDB on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 1:46pm.

That's my point.

Every time you point a conservative Christian to one of the bizarre rules of the Old Testament, they argue "Jesus lifted that one", but yet they still want to enforce the Old Testament codes about sexuality.

Voting is like driving. If you want to go backwards, select R. If you want to go forward, select D.

Owens's picture

fire all the

Submitted by Owens (not verified) on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 12:35pm.

I Timothy...
This scripture is mostly for the household.
Christ at the head then in sequence from there.

Now the barber shop...
That's interesting!!!

(I think if you are going bald, a shave is not sin or 'cutting corners'.)
-Thomas Ken

T.K.'s picture

A Civil-Union is not

Submitted by T.K. (not verified) on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 11:33am.

A Civil-Union is not marriage.

R. Neal's picture

A Civil-Union is not

Submitted by R. Neal on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 11:36am.

A Civil-Union is not marriage.

Fine. They why restrict same-sex couples from entering into a binding civil union? They can still also get "married" if they want to, but it simply wouldn't have any legal standing.

T.K.'s picture

That's why God sent Jesus

Submitted by T.K. (not verified) on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:05pm.

That's why God sent Jesus into the world.
We've all messed up or we wouldn't be human.
We are just not supposed to keep messing up.

MDB's picture

We are just not supposed to

Submitted by MDB on Mon, 2009/02/02 - 12:07pm.

We are just not supposed to keep messing up.

So, then, when will you stop coming on here, and making yourself and other Christians look like fools?

Voting is like driving. If you want to go backwards, select R. If you want to go forward, select D.

sugarfatpie's picture

*White guy with beard who is

Submitted by sugarfatpie on Tue, 2009/02/03 - 3:34pm.

*White guy with beard who is a lot like Papaw but has magical powers.

I almost had an accident reading that one. Whew, I'm over it now. Nice!!

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

Owens's picture

Sorry, I thought you could

Submitted by Owens (not verified) on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 12:20pm.

Sorry,
I thought you could handle a less preachy term.
Romans 6:14-15
How about this: sin leads to Death and Destruction.
No smoky mirrors.

sugarfatpie's picture

How do you think quoting the

Submitted by sugarfatpie on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 2:00pm.

How do you think quoting the bible is going to change anyone's mind on this? Aren't you "preaching to the converted" when you do this?
If you want to have more impact, even with most "christians", I suggest couching your argument in non-biblical terms.

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

Owens's picture

'the government has no

Submitted by Owens (not verified) on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 12:25pm.

'the government has no business getting involved in it.'

True. Now, how do we tell Andy Taylor?

Eve's picture

Amen!

Submitted by Eve (not verified) on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 11:36pm.

Hey T.K. I was looking for you on facebook. (Nikki Burleson's brother had mentioned you were running for city commission. She has a bunch of band pictures on there.) Anyway.. I am really proud of the man you have become. Go get em'! I was a resident there still I would vote for you. You should sign up for facebook and myspace and get in touch with some people. It would help with the election I am sure! Take care and hope you are doing well.

Eve Revilla Walker

scottfrith's picture

Andrew Sulliivan makes the

Submitted by scottfrith on Tue, 2009/02/03 - 2:33am.

Andrew Sulliivan makes the strongest arguments in favor of marriage equality. Check out here and here.

StaceyDiamond's picture

Cat

Submitted by StaceyDiamond on Tue, 2009/02/03 - 5:27pm.

I wish they'd hurry and change the laws so I can marry my cat before Rev. Ed Taylor retires from his Gatlinburg wedding business.

redmondkr's picture

"Jesus lifted that one" "I

Submitted by redmondkr on Wed, 2009/02/04 - 2:29pm.

"Jesus lifted that one"

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." [Susan B Anthony]

"Now, leaders of the highly organized Christian Right have successfully elevated into America's political debate some of the most divisive social questions. The most vivid examples involve sexual preference, which obviously has highly personal and emotional overtones. Tragically, these divisive social questions have even been moved to the forefront of the presidential election scene. At the same time, almost all Protestants now condone divorce as acceptable, and rarely emphasize fornication or adultery, although these sexual acts were repeatedly condemned by Jesus. It is much easier and more convenient to focus on sins of which we are not known to be guilty.", [Jimmy Carter, Our Endangered Values]


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