Thu
May 4 2006
07:30 am
By: R. Neal

Nine of the twelve "theoretically" term-limited county commissioners were renominated. This, along with the pathetic 14% turnout, indicates that Knox Co. voters either a) couldn't care less about local government, or b) didn't really mean it when they said they wanted term limits, in which case they should call for a referendum and have them repealed. At any rate, it's no wonder the KNOXGOB machine is able to stay in business. As they say, people generally get the government they deserve.

Tess's picture

Why can't we vote for ALL

Why can't we vote for ALL the commissioners?  They vote on issues that affect the whole county, why should they all not be held accountable to the entire county? That and the elections being partisan.  You have to decide which races are more important to you and declare a party based on that.  Not a good way to conduct a local election, I say, and a source of voter-turnoff.

spintrep's picture

attn commission reform

Tess wrote: Why can't we vote for ALL the commissioners? They vote on issues that affect the whole county, why should they all not be held accountable to the entire county? That and the elections being partisan. You have to decide which races are more important to you and declare a party based on that. Not a good way to conduct a local election, I say, and a source of voter-turnoff. >>>>>>>

Bravo! Open things up to the option of at large candidates along with the option of district candidates, let the numbers sort it out.

and et.al., kill the party system... Or at least level the playing field for independents.

Tess's picture

Thanks, Spintrep

Thanks, Spintrep

When I come into power we will change things for the better.

rikki's picture

Why can't we vote for ALL

Why can't we vote for ALL the U.S. Senators and Representatives or everyone in the Tennessee legislature?

Tess's picture

We don't vote "for" them, we

We don't vote "for" them, we vote "against"  them.  I would like to be able to vote against the commissioners who tried to put a commercial warehouse in my residential nabe. Tongue out

spintrep's picture

Senate balance

It would take a constitutional convention to change things on the national level... but the balance in the Senate is one of the biggest distortions of representative democracy (by the lower populated western states) in the entire system of our government. It is one of the worse unintended developments over the centuries since the rules were established. And while trifling with our constitution would be serious business, these rules are after all, arbitrary.

Starting with reforms on the local levels would be much easier. Why not a Blount Co. resident as our regional watershed czar?  

But to the bigger prize of the Senate... Too often the narrow interests of western states have and continue to result in the plundering of natural resources, subsidies with farming interests, and all other undue influence over the interests of the majority. Not to say some value shouldn't be kept with the original intent of state balance, just that what we see now is ripe for question... that is, if people really studied it much.

Next... term limits or at least a no-confidence process for elimination of Supreme Court Judges. 

rikki's picture

reverse psychology

It would take a constitutional convention to change things on the national level...

Yeah, I was going for reverse psychology on that one. It's pretty obvious why Tennesseans don't get to vote on who represents Alabamans in Congress even though the federal government affects us all. Knoxville's city council system, with district primaries and citywide generals, is a bit perverse.

I think Bill Lyons' point about broad representation depressing turnout is very important. Populations are much larger than when this country was founded, and I sometimes wonder if we need to create another level in the hierarchy to help bridge the gap between representative and represented. 

Tess's picture

I acknowledge that a number

I acknowledge that a number of you are a lot smarter than I am about how the political process works/should work.

My point is that if Mary Lou Horner (Halls rep) (example--dated, I know, but relevant) can vote on a decision that is very important to my West Knox neighborhood in a way that is very detrimental for the citizens of that neighborhood, I should have a vote on her tenure.

 All I am saying....

Anonymous's picture

I want to vote in New York then

Senators Schumer and Clinton vote on things that are important to me, why shouldn't I be able to vote against them in New York?

That just wouldn't work.  You vote for your commissioner and hope they vote the way you want on your issues.

As for the election, Wanda Moody was ousted and I am glad my vote helped do it.  I am tired of her spending my tax money on a personal vendetta against the sheriff. 

Bill Young's picture

Democratic turn-out

Hung out @ the Fort(10-N) election Day...I thought 8-9000 (12-14% of the 66,000 that Kerry got) would vote in the Democratic Primary(6,932 voted) & by 2 that afternoon I knew I was way off on my turn-out prediction.What suprised me was the turn-out in the 1st & 2nd districts.In the 1st (these are rounded rough estimates from the N-S)the vote in:'94 was 2,000;in '98-1,700;'02-1,500....the total 1st district vote,this time,was 1,096..where I went wrong... 1.believed  Jordan would get her par...around 1,200 votes...she ended up with 674(61.5% of the total) 2.believed the write-ins would get twice as many votes as they did.The write-ins only got a total of 308 votes.In the 2nd,the vote in '94 was 1,100;in'98-564;in '02-700....the total vote,this time, was 876....where I went wrong...Tindell,I believed Billy would get his par of around 600...he got 356(40.6% of the total).In the 1st,I was 825 votes off...In the 2nd,I was 244 votes off....The total vote for the write-ins,in the 2nd,did not suprise me(419)...but the % did(47.9%).

Bill Young's picture

% of the total

The total vote (in the districts & county wide),in each primary, is on the Commission web site.By adding the total vote of the candidates;then subtract from the total vote;that gives you the none of the above vote:1st Disrict;1096 total vote;% of total:Jordan-61.5%;None of the above-10.4%;Lewis-9.2%;Foster-4.9%;Johnson-4.2%;Dupree-3.8%;Frazier-3.2%;Garland-1.6%;Diamond-1.1%....2nd District;total vote 876;% of total:Tindell-40.6%;Broyles-30%;Wimmer-17.9%;none of the above-11.5%....Good news for Tyree..fer Shurrif...GOP Primary:none of the above-34.6%

Bill Young's picture

Shurif

Sorry,wrong on Gop Shurif,...I should have said:none of the above + write-in=34.6%

Number9's picture

Gives new meaning to the

Gives new meaning to the words "Volunteer State". It cost over $14 per vote for Mayor Ragsdale. He better start raising money, at that rate it will take 14 million dollars to run for Governor.

With a 14% turnout only one word can sum up Knox County. Sheepville.

spintrep's picture

internal machines

Outside of KNOXGOP machine, the weak coherence of the Dems in general, and the trending of general political apathy and cynicism... I don't think you can under estimate (for other average voters) the factor of psychological intimidation surrounding all the uncertainty about what was going on with the whole process in this election.
Some likely didn't want to show up. They were confused about options. Even if they studied things, it still wasn't clear what their vote would mean. (kind of like trying to cut and paste on this site with Firefox... )
Still, none of us really know what's going to happen with all this court stuff.
 
They really screwed up by not following common sense and postponing this primary. I don't know the legal obstacle for not doing so. Ordinarily, I'm sure it takes a major reason on the order of some kind of civil disaster. But why wouldn't the rights of the voter take priority over the rights of other concerns in this case?
but if it was just to avoid more lawsuits...
Bill Lyons's picture

Why voting for ALL is not that simple

A couple of points from the world of political science on the matter of electing commissioners at large where all or at least a number of commissioners run county wide. Personally, I like at least some degree of “at large” rather than pure district representation in a local body such as is the case with the City of Knoxville, but here is a bit of background that might be helpful. As is usually the case, all is not as it appears and if you don't like turnout now, such a change is not likely to make you very happy.

Research clearly shows that at large representation tends to inhibit turnout rather than to increase it. There are many reasons for this but the most obvious is that many voters (or nonvoters) feel that nobody in such a system represents their neighborhood, area, or group. Minorities, especially, feel disenfranchised because they are not able to elect their preferred candidate because the citywide majorities in fact choose a disproportionate number of representatives. At large representation is a product of the urban reform movement of early in the last century. Other elements of the movement were nonpartisan elections and the city manager form of government. The idea was simple…take the “politics” out of local government so it can be run in a more professional, businesslike manner with representatives looking to the interest of the citizens as a whole rather than that of various groups. That turned out to be a rather naïve viewpoint that functioned well in smaller homogeneous communities but was problematic at best in larger, diverse settings..

The result was the fewer folks voted, governments did pursue somewhat different policies from those they would otherwise have pursued (my dissertation, for what it is worth), and, that minorities tended to be under represented, especially in more diverse communities. This last factor led to provisions under the Voting Rights Act and many lawsuits followed in which African American plaintiffs were successful in securing charter changes such that the new form of government had little or no at large representation. Such was the case in Chattanooga and in Memphis where the finding was that there was minority vote dilution under at large voting schemes. In some cities African Americans made up 35% or more of the population with councils and commissions that had very low, if any, minority representation. If somehow a movement were to be launched to institute at large voting for the Knox County commission (against present state law which enables home rule counties, I believe) such a system would soon be buried under an avalanche of legal action. The city’s system has not been challenged because the proportion of African American representation on Council (1 out of 9) is not that out of line with the proportion in the city and, more importantly, there is no evidence that the candidates preferred by the majority of African Americans are systematically defeated by the candidates preferred by the majority of whites. That, in fact, is the legal test under the relevant Supreme Court Case (Gingles vs. North Carolina, for the obsessed.)

I know, more than you wanted to know.

Bill Lyons

edens's picture

>There is no evidence that

>There is no evidence that the candidates preferred by the majority of >African Americans are systematically defeated by the candidates >preferred by the majority of whites.

That said, the city's system does produce quirks where the winner of the district only primary goes on to lose the city-wide general election. The Ellen Adcock/Steve Hall race being the most recent example. Although there are others. If I recall, Gary Underwood, Bill Powell and Danny Mayfield were all first elected to council after coming in - in some cases, a distant - second in the district primary.

And, although with early voting such statistics aren't particularly accurate, the winner of the district-only primary sometimes fails to carry the same district weeks later in the city-wide general. Even if he/she wins city-wide (happened to Rob Frost in his first council race, if I recall. Won the primary but was outpolled slightly by Cortese at 4th district precincts on election day)

Bill Lyons's picture

City Voting System

Matt is correct about the quirks with the city system of having district vote to nominate the top two and have a citywide second vote to declare the victor. The victor in the first round sometimes does lose citywide. Of course if there was never such a case the second vote would be meaningless but a district's ability to choose it preferred representative is certainly constrained by having the second vote. The interesting thing, getting back to what started this thread, is that everyone on council has a citywide constituency while six also have district constituencies. To Tess's point, a citizen has a vote on every council person both at large and district, regardless of whether the councilperson is from one's district. It does prevent pure "log rolling" where representatives can trade support for an item outside a person's district for support from another district's representative on later votes in the other district. All these systems have trade-offs. If the trade-off is a serious dilution of the voting power of minorities the trade-off is not acceptable to the courts. Knoxville's is a system unlike any I have seen and I think it works pretty well here, all things considered in the way it mixes district vs. citywide focus.

Bill Young's picture

Don't it go like this

City rules:1.Count to 5 (Outa 9 members of council...ya gotta have 5 to do anything) 2.I won't mess with your district;if you don't mess with my district ( 6 districts;6 votes)..

spintrep's picture

New Urbanist Hillbillies

Thanks to Dr. Lyons for entertaining some musings and expanding on the topic of at-large representation. Always easy to let the imagination fly before examining what's been tried and studied already.

I assume studies would compare numbers on 'primary residence' homeowners within a district as a factor in percentages as well.  

Interesting to recognize and appreciate where Knoxville has a unique setup in providing some at-large balance.

The more I think of ways to accommodate the complexities, the more I recognize where voters could become more alienated, but I see where some voters across the community could benefit with even more flexibility (which isn't available on the county or state level.) Certainly the chances of potential independent parties (Greens, Libertarians, New Urbanist Hillbillies, Isolationist 9ines, ?) or other groups could benefit from some mix of at-large representation.

I see where it dilutes district power and creates a divide between the priorities of district representation vs more issue oriented representation in the council process. I just don't see where district representation is always that effective in some of the issues I care about.

I wasn't aware state regs already keeping the clamps on such things for counties. Let me guess, there are no plans for at-large representation opportunity in our state legislature either. And with the two dominant parties making the rules... Looks like the "fix" has origins that run deep.

Tess's picture

Well, then, how about a

Well, then, how about a weighted vote for commission?  Weight of 1.0 for your district rep and 0.5 for other commissioners.  I am sure the computers can easily sort it out.  This would keep them honest and more accountable to the voters than the developers, which is the way it is skewed now.

bizgrrl's picture

In the recent New Orleans

In the recent New Orleans election, with many people not even living there anymore, they got a 37 percent voter turnout.

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